What It Means To Be "Ordained To Go And Bring Forth Fruit."
Wow! What a marvelous revelation! It really is "not I, but Christ lives in me" only as I am dying daily.
You will remember a couple of weeks ago Steven Crook gave a presentation on what it means to stand. The basic point is that one could be standing outside or inside, in the flesh or in Christ. The Greek word for stand is histemi, G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position like standing
I have just finished reading your letter, recently posted, to E__ in which you make reference to John 15:16 while explaining When Is "My Father's Kingdom" and What Is "The Fruit Of The Vine?" I enjoyed reading your response, especially how you encouraged the writer. I was prompted by the Lord to take a closer look at the verse, so I used e-Sword.
Joh 15:16 Ye5210 have not3756 chosen1586 me,3165 but235 I1473 have chosen1586 you,5209 and2532 ordained5087 you,5209that2443 ye5210 should go5217 and2532 bring forth5342 fruit,2590 and2532 your5216 fruit2590 should remain:3306 that2443whatsoever3748, 302 ye shall ask154 of the3588 Father3962 in1722 my3450 name,3686 he may give1325 it you.5213
One of the first things I noticed is that the verse has two hina (gk.) purpose clauses, the G2443 word 'that' or more properly 'in order that' or 'so that'. You know they connect what is before with what comes after them.
Well, I'm pretty clear on being chosen (Aorist in this verse - am choosing) and you covered it in your response to the writer, so I decided to look at the word 'ordained'. It appears that the Greek is tithemi and that it is a close cousin to histemi (stand), but in this case it is quite opposite in that the position is passive and/or horizontal. Both words can be used to describe the setting or placing of something which is distinctly what Christ is doing here in this verse. The difference is to set (stand) something up (histemi) or to place (lay) something down (tithemi).
A prolonged form of a primary word θέω theō (which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate): - + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.
1) to set, put, place
1a) to place or lay
1b) to put down, lay down
1b1) to bend down
1b2) to lay off or aside, to wear or carry no longer
1b3) to lay by, lay aside money
1c) to set on (serve) something to eat or drink
1d) to set forth, something to be explained by discourse
2) to make
2a) to make (or set) for one's self or for one's use
3) to set, fix establish
3a) to set forth
3b) to establish, ordain
Part of Speech: verb
I then noticed the other, resulting side of the hina which is 'should go' and the Greek here is hupago, G5217. The verb is in the subjunctive mood which puts it in the potential, thus the 'should' part. But the 'going' is a little different that one might imagine in that it is 'going away' like withdrawing or retiring from someone or something.
From G5259 and G71; to lead (oneself) under, that is, withdraw or retire (as if sinking out of sight), literally or figuratively: - depart, get hence, go (a-) way.
1) to lead under, bring under
2) to withdraw one's self, to go away, depart
Part of Speech: verb
And then I saw what the spirit is saying in using these two words: Christ has chosen those whom he would lay aside (utterly prostrate) in order that they could be going away (as if sinking out of sight - decreasing) and could be carrying fruit (as a branch of the vine).
It's exactly like he said in John 12.24, the grain of wheat dying to bring much fruit and like Paul explained in Galatians 2.20; crucified with Christ - nevertheless I live – but not I – but Christ lives in me.
And all this in order that (hina) I could be asking of the Father in Christ-like character, and He could be giving to, with and by us.
Thanks for sharing this with me. Let's share these things with others also.