Can Women Speak At All In The Church?
Hi M____,Good Morning Mike,Without taking a lot of time to explain what led me to re-re-re-read that article again, I wanted to suggest to you again that the article (The Head of Christ is God) should be placed in the Essential reading section of the site as it is that powerful and comprehensive a teaching. Placing it in essential readings will put it in position to be read by more people (in my opinion). It brings out so clearly how important it is to understand the relationship of God and Christ (v. trinity), Christ and us and just like the offerings studies demonstrates how specifically we are to witness to that truth as male/female, husband/wife. Just like the offerings are a type and extremely exact/specific in showing us how we are to know Christ. Our roles in which God has placed us is just as exact and specific, and it shows us why he has ordained men with certain responsibility in our "walk" and the same with women in their "walk"...even though it is contrary to culture and even natural thinking (after all, many wives are more spiritual and more capable leaders/speakers than their husbands)...It shows us that theirs is a hierarchy in the spiritual realm, which answers the common objective to the clear words of scripture...it shows us what the Scriptures mean to "prophecy" (i.e. as a former basketball coach I may tell my center to NEVER dribble the ball (even though he is more than capable), but he can pass, shoot, play defense and rebound - he may not like it (he thinks he helps the team better by including dribbling, but as the coach that is not how I have defined his role for the betterment of the team's and his success - so his 1st reaction is "Why won't coach let me play basketball and I say - you can play basketball (broader), just not dribble (1of 5 things you do when you play) - there are many essential things for you to do in playing basketball....anyway that was an example I gave to help the group understand that Christ's Word doesn't contradict either if we let His Word define what He means....)...it shows us Truly 'good works' are manifested only in those who do what cannot be done naturally (to quote you) ...I could continue on with the many truths that by God's Spirit that paper has brought much clarity to me with many spiritual truths and many practical applications for our walk which is to witness to that truth...it comes down to all of us think we know the better way to witness for Christ and that is a struggle to die to (male or female)...and we have to repent and learn the more excellent way to witness and be a witness.....which Christ has a prescribed way and we have (had I pray) a way that "seems better" but isn't.This week, I was reading Acts and in chapter 18 I noticed this verse 26...And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly....and I began to see even more clearly why so many Christians (both men and women - myself included in times past...) ignore the clear words of scripture (I suffer not a woman to teach, or usurp authority) as in Acts the woman are teaching the man in this biblical example (as you say strong delusion is not weak delusion). In this same chapter Paul talks about getting to Jerusalum to keep the feast and many were baptized so the whole church thinks they are following the book of Acts examples of keeping all the holy days, sabbaths and baptizing in water...yet as we grow and mature we realize these are all outward rituals with no spiritual impact. We are to keep the holy days inwardly, sabbaths inwardly and baptism is the washing of water by the word...nothing from without a man can defile (or cleanse) him so I'm thinking that these two woman in acts were not teaching continuously or from a position of authority, but it does not mean they can't witness for Christ one-one (like in this example)...For instance Sandi wrote a wonderful paper that is posted on this site - it is for the women, but I did learn from the paper and it has helped me grow, but she is not usurping authority nor leading the men (though I don't know her very well and have not met either of you in person - she seems to be a Godly example in her role). Mary did witness to the resurrection of Christ before any man...so since the sum of the word is truth and you have expounded so magnificantly/comprehensively in your paper - this particular scripture (Acts 18) was not addressed in the paper...Do you think I am rightly dividing this particular scripture in the light of all the other scripture (some woman and church leaders take Priscilla & Aquila's expounding unto him the way of God more perfectly as a "biblical"reason to be a continous teacher, leader/pastor example - not realizing they are interpreting the word based on that scripture alone, of course they do the same with Deborah not realizing that story as you point out was an indictment on Israel and not an example for us to practically follow (though inwardly we will all live out that word)...Can a woman (single or married) at her job answer questions (with a quiet and meek spirit) that men ask without blaspheming the name among the heathens? Can a woman in a discussion after a bible study participate in a way that she may be bring more light to God's word for both men and the woman? Done with the proper motives and with the right spirit, I don't see this as usurping authority and taking on the role in the church as leader, teacher, pastor, overseer...Well, this note ended up longer than I initially intended, but would appreciate your comments.
Thanks, M____
Thank you for very encouraging words, for your suggestions and for your questions.
I will ask Steve to place that article in the
essential reading section. Anyone who still believes that women are not
to be allowed to preach and teach as the apostles instructed, are
generally today considered to simply be Neanderthal. I heard a minister
on television say "Anyone who still thinks that women cannot teach and
preach is just plain stupid." That was Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's
Chapel program, but he is echoing the sentiments of most of the
Protestant world.
As for Aquilla and Pricilla instructing Apollos,
Aquilla is Pricilla's husband, and I could very truthfully say that
Sandi and I have instructed many over the years, simply because we are
"one flesh." Sandi has never once been a featured speaker at any
conference and by virtue of that fact has instructed many women
concerning what is so valuable to God in a woman. A meek and quiet
spirit is what God values in a wife. When we come to Christ with idols
of the heart, we as men are not coming to Christ with a "meek and quiet
spirit." But if we stand for His word against all the voices of
Babylon, we are indeed coming to Him with "a meek and quiet spirit
which is in the eyes of God of great price."
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Physical women actually become "the hidden man of
the heart" by obedience to these words. By ignoring these words they
become the elders of Israel who come to God's word to enquire of it,
with idols of their heart.
Eze 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Eze 14:2 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 14:3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
Eze 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze 14:8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze 14:10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh [unto him];
When we "think above what is written," it is we
who have "separated ourselves from God." But to Arnold Murray and most
of the Protestant world, "what is written" is "foolishness to them,"
and anyone who thinks otherwise is 'stupid.'
Well, I am preaching to the choir, so I will close
by saying that there in nothing wrong with a woman who is new to
scripture, asking a question in a teaching setting, so long as it is
with a meek and quiet spirit. Hard as it is to say in this society,
even questions should be asked of their husbands at home.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence [same Greek root used in regards to unemployed men in 2Th 3, see below] in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
As I have said before, there is a reason why we
are hated of all men. There is a reason why many are called but few are
chosen. It all boils down to loving God and keeping His commandments,
and it is few indeed who tremble at God's Word.
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2Th 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2Th 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
It all amounts to the strong bearing the
infirmities of the weak as per Rom 14. We certainly ought not jump all
over a newbie, a babe in Christ who is asking a question with a proper
spirit but ignorant of what is the mind of God. We ought always to
treat all men with patience and love, and yet when confronted we must
stand true to God's word, and never waver. "The things I write unto you
are the commandments of the Lord," and in spite of all the doctrines of
Babylon to the contrary, Truth is not relevant to the time in which it
is spoken. Christ said "I am the Truth..." and then He added "Heaven
and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away" (Mt 24:35).
I hope this is of some help to you. Many women in scripture were witnesses of what they has seen and heard. All of Christ's apostles were also witnesses to what they had seen and heard, but a witness is not necessarily a teacher or a preacher. The sum of God's word makes that so abundantly clear.
Your brother in the Christ,
Mike